For me it all comes down to full consciousness, which cannot be achieved without involving fire. Nothing with a Sapien level of awareness will ever be able to fit in with the web of life. This helps me with accepting that we really do need to go away... ASAP
"We are the ultimate invasive species, a cancer on Earth."
Yes, but every life form in the universe would be going down our same path if capable (the good ole MPP). So technically, it's not humans that are the ultimate invasive species, it's Life. But it can't be an all-out cancer on Earth unless fire enters the picture.
So the cancerous doomsday clock doesn't begin until fire. Let's say you were an interstellar traveling space alien, and your job was to survey the planets that have complex life to study & predict if/when life on that planet will cause a self-induced mass extinction... well, if fire hasn't been harnessed on that planet, then you'll probably predict that there's no threat. (unless you see a species that just recently got out of the trees and is now starting to walk upright, freeing up a couple of limbs that have opposable thumbs attached... for that you might predict 5 million years or so).
But if control of the flame has shown up on that planet (even just a little bit), then your alien job is easy peasy. Trace fire back to when it started and make your prediction for 1-2 million years from that date. Two things will be required to guarantee your correct: some luck with survival (especially bottleneck events) and an eventual Holocene type period of climate stability... And if fire usage is already widespread on that planet (especially cooking) but no agriculture yet, then you can confidently predict that they are about 10-20k years away from their mass extinction moment as soon as agriculture finally starts up.
Jan, you're not alone, and we're there with you, not that it changes anything to the outcomes. "Valar morghulis" - all men must die... What can we learn from people / friends having a prognosis of likely earlier than expected death? -> cultivate what brings you true inner joy and peace, and spend time with the people and natural places that count for you.
Insightless diatribe which does not understand that not all problems are equal, and that it is perfectly valid to replace a large problem with a smaller problem and still come out ahead.
Comprehensive piece. Glad to see you got it published.
Like you, I'm a chronic depressive and in the 6 years of dealing with collapse since becoming aware it's been a hellish ride. I've shouted from the roof tops, I've tried to prepare, I've tried to reason with people but the intellectual awareness gap is just too wide to bridge.
Then a started to read around the ideas of personal agency. A globally connected world tells us we have MUCH MUCH more than we actually have. Dovetail into this the scientifically supported understanding that forms part of non-dualism that we actyhave no free will, decisions are in motion before we realise we've been required to make one often. Then one can see the UTTER INEVITABILITY of our demise. That's lead me to a place if acceptance, I feel I've digested it. At least while my relatively comfortable life allows me to avoid real hardship. My acceptance will face it's truest test when the problems start knocking my own door.
I like the experience to watching a movie with a bunch of people. A good movie is so engaging you aren't aware that what activity you're doing, full immersion. Acceptance feels like those moments in movies when something happens that is absurd and it snaps you out of the immersion and you realise you are staring at a story. That's what watching the end of our civilization feels like from a place of acceptance. A front row seat to the show. This was always going to be the way homo sapiens story went. My agency can do nothing about that. No amount of perceived agency can do anything about that. The brain washing starts when we start to walk and we don't get to decide on much. As Brian Klass says 'we have no control, but our actions have enormous consequences'.
I have read the entire message. It has impressed me with his lucidity and knowledge. Thanks a lot. Great links to very interesting resources.
You say:
“Stoics and Buddhists recognised ages ago that our ever-fleeting happiness is a brain bug and worked diligently to develop a mentality to circumvent it, striving instead for lives of meaning and contentment”. Some hetherodox Christians as well.
Hundreds of thousands of years of humanity have given a lot, among other things skills to develop antidotes to our own self-destruction. That's one.
I hope I don't bother if I say that when I read your text this came to my mind:
"wisdom to understand the difference between circumstances ("things") that can and cannot be changed, asking courage to take action in the case of the former, and serenity to accept in the case of the latter".
And with this I am not saying that there is nothing we can do. As long as the possibility exists, every day is still worth it.
Strange as it may sound, even if the possibility is not there, which I believe is not the case, I think everything is worth it. At least your ride made my day today. You are not alone.
This is the third time I have attempted to read this article, and still i have not finished it, distracted by reading the links, and exhausted by the sheer depth and breadth of it all! - but i wanted to say THANK YOU, as it's an incredible read, you cover so much, and reading it is the mother of all reality checks. I have listened to so many hours of Michael Dowd's talks already, but I still very much appreciate your particular summary here and the referencing and books linked to as well.
The so-called 'Tragedy of the Commons' is a capitalist lie intended to demonise commoning.
What Hardin was referring to was a free-for-all in which there are no controls... that's not what a commons is. A commons is managed. The people using the commons talk, negotiate, make agreements. We lived like this for 99% of human history, we can again.
It is this which we need to focus on - ending the delusion that land, water, and all that these support, is ownable.
Jan! WOW. It has taken me 4 days to read this. I don't know where you get the energy. Its shocking. Its frightening. I am really speechless.
Now I have all the links to review!! Just wanted to pop on at this point and say how much I appreciate all your effort with Part 4. I have been waiting for it and was not disappointed!
Depressing, isn’t it? A planet-sized Ozymandias.
Whew, that was a long one. Excellent job Jan!
For me it all comes down to full consciousness, which cannot be achieved without involving fire. Nothing with a Sapien level of awareness will ever be able to fit in with the web of life. This helps me with accepting that we really do need to go away... ASAP
"We are the ultimate invasive species, a cancer on Earth."
Yes, but every life form in the universe would be going down our same path if capable (the good ole MPP). So technically, it's not humans that are the ultimate invasive species, it's Life. But it can't be an all-out cancer on Earth unless fire enters the picture.
So the cancerous doomsday clock doesn't begin until fire. Let's say you were an interstellar traveling space alien, and your job was to survey the planets that have complex life to study & predict if/when life on that planet will cause a self-induced mass extinction... well, if fire hasn't been harnessed on that planet, then you'll probably predict that there's no threat. (unless you see a species that just recently got out of the trees and is now starting to walk upright, freeing up a couple of limbs that have opposable thumbs attached... for that you might predict 5 million years or so).
But if control of the flame has shown up on that planet (even just a little bit), then your alien job is easy peasy. Trace fire back to when it started and make your prediction for 1-2 million years from that date. Two things will be required to guarantee your correct: some luck with survival (especially bottleneck events) and an eventual Holocene type period of climate stability... And if fire usage is already widespread on that planet (especially cooking) but no agriculture yet, then you can confidently predict that they are about 10-20k years away from their mass extinction moment as soon as agriculture finally starts up.
And just to leave you with some entertainment. Here is my latest fantasy for ending all current and future suffering in our solar system forever. https://un-denial.com/2025/06/06/what-should-can-could-will-we-do/#comment-112587
Jan, you're not alone, and we're there with you, not that it changes anything to the outcomes. "Valar morghulis" - all men must die... What can we learn from people / friends having a prognosis of likely earlier than expected death? -> cultivate what brings you true inner joy and peace, and spend time with the people and natural places that count for you.
Congrats for getting part 4 out at last - an excellent analysis as always. Looking forward to part 5 in the next couple of weeks ;)
Lemmings come to mind.
It's not much fun being Cassandra, is it? Stay strong, there is still much beauty on this earth.
Fantastic! Worth the wait.
Insightless diatribe which does not understand that not all problems are equal, and that it is perfectly valid to replace a large problem with a smaller problem and still come out ahead.
I didn't expect less from you, Jan. We're still here, sharing the pain and trying to cope with beautiful, tiny things...
A hug for you. Keep sharing your thoughts.
Gracias por expresar con claridad lo que otros sentimos Jan. Compartimos infierno. Un abrazo.
Comprehensive piece. Glad to see you got it published.
Like you, I'm a chronic depressive and in the 6 years of dealing with collapse since becoming aware it's been a hellish ride. I've shouted from the roof tops, I've tried to prepare, I've tried to reason with people but the intellectual awareness gap is just too wide to bridge.
Then a started to read around the ideas of personal agency. A globally connected world tells us we have MUCH MUCH more than we actually have. Dovetail into this the scientifically supported understanding that forms part of non-dualism that we actyhave no free will, decisions are in motion before we realise we've been required to make one often. Then one can see the UTTER INEVITABILITY of our demise. That's lead me to a place if acceptance, I feel I've digested it. At least while my relatively comfortable life allows me to avoid real hardship. My acceptance will face it's truest test when the problems start knocking my own door.
I like the experience to watching a movie with a bunch of people. A good movie is so engaging you aren't aware that what activity you're doing, full immersion. Acceptance feels like those moments in movies when something happens that is absurd and it snaps you out of the immersion and you realise you are staring at a story. That's what watching the end of our civilization feels like from a place of acceptance. A front row seat to the show. This was always going to be the way homo sapiens story went. My agency can do nothing about that. No amount of perceived agency can do anything about that. The brain washing starts when we start to walk and we don't get to decide on much. As Brian Klass says 'we have no control, but our actions have enormous consequences'.
'so it goes' as Kurt Vonnegut would tell us.
Hello,
I have read the entire message. It has impressed me with his lucidity and knowledge. Thanks a lot. Great links to very interesting resources.
You say:
“Stoics and Buddhists recognised ages ago that our ever-fleeting happiness is a brain bug and worked diligently to develop a mentality to circumvent it, striving instead for lives of meaning and contentment”. Some hetherodox Christians as well.
https://mercaba.org/DOCTORES/JUAN-CRUZ/monte_de_perfeccion.htm
Hundreds of thousands of years of humanity have given a lot, among other things skills to develop antidotes to our own self-destruction. That's one.
I hope I don't bother if I say that when I read your text this came to my mind:
"wisdom to understand the difference between circumstances ("things") that can and cannot be changed, asking courage to take action in the case of the former, and serenity to accept in the case of the latter".
And with this I am not saying that there is nothing we can do. As long as the possibility exists, every day is still worth it.
Strange as it may sound, even if the possibility is not there, which I believe is not the case, I think everything is worth it. At least your ride made my day today. You are not alone.
Greetings from Montevideo, Uruguay.
This is the third time I have attempted to read this article, and still i have not finished it, distracted by reading the links, and exhausted by the sheer depth and breadth of it all! - but i wanted to say THANK YOU, as it's an incredible read, you cover so much, and reading it is the mother of all reality checks. I have listened to so many hours of Michael Dowd's talks already, but I still very much appreciate your particular summary here and the referencing and books linked to as well.
Thank you, Ranaee, I really appreciate that! I put a lot of thought into it, so it's very lovely to have it appreciated so much by someone :-)
The so-called 'Tragedy of the Commons' is a capitalist lie intended to demonise commoning.
What Hardin was referring to was a free-for-all in which there are no controls... that's not what a commons is. A commons is managed. The people using the commons talk, negotiate, make agreements. We lived like this for 99% of human history, we can again.
It is this which we need to focus on - ending the delusion that land, water, and all that these support, is ownable.
You write so so well! Shame it's about our collective death and destruction.....😅
Jan! WOW. It has taken me 4 days to read this. I don't know where you get the energy. Its shocking. Its frightening. I am really speechless.
Now I have all the links to review!! Just wanted to pop on at this point and say how much I appreciate all your effort with Part 4. I have been waiting for it and was not disappointed!
Thank you so much 🙏🏻 I’m very glad you liked it ☺️